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The following are a list of IC topics which will be covered in the next 
Weavercraft meeting, in this order. 

1) Welcoming new members 
2) Promotions! 
3) Mentorings 
4) Journeyrank sendoff 

The following are a list of OOC topics which will be covered in the next 
Weavercraft meeting, in this order. 

1) ICness of Descriptions - discussion and opinions 
2) Promotions 
3) OOC Forum - time for anyone who has an issue they'd like to raise, a 
comment to make, etc. 

Tessa tries to hide her hands as Opa enters, blushing. 

Weavers> Kelay says, "I want to be here but I have to go for about a half 
  an hour!" 

Mammaw grins and nods. "I know!!" 
Maura nods to Opa. "Hello, ma'am." 
Opa enters with a sheaf of wherhide notes in her hand, smiling at the 
  various Weavers as she walks over to her table. 
Sachi flouces into the room and takes a seat. 
Jorai grins, spreding her napkin over her lap, "We've all had them Tessa." 

Weavers> Fiona says, "So go now so you can get back soon, Kelay. :) I'll 
  prolly have to go for a while around 11, too." 

Tessa sighs, grinning sheepishly. "I guess, but this wasn't my fault. Dart 
  tried to help this morning." 
Mammaw grins up at the MasterWeaver and then looks at the note one more 
  time. 
You sit down at the Craftmaster's Table. 
Spring chirples at Mammaw. 
Broccal heads in from the kitchen and storage area. 
Jorai notices Broccal arrive and begins smoothing her hair instead of the 
  napkin. 
Mammaw shoos the firelizard away. "I'll send a note later!!" 
Spring nods, chirples and leaves. 
Spring jumps up and goes into between with a *pop*. 
Broccal looks around, waving to his friends and even the mrl before taking 
  a seat next to Jorai. 
Maura waches curiously as people arrive. 
Opa sets the wherhide notes down under her seat as the drudges start 
  bringing in teh platters of food - the smell of river grains and broiled 
  fish wafts in as they enter. 
Jorai smiles brightly, "How's the post?" 
Mammaw blushes as she sends the firelizard off, but still is smiling. 
Maura looks at the remains of her snack, and looks midly embarassed. 
Opa turns to the other tables as she serves herself a dish. "Good meal, 
  everyone!" 
Tessa scoops Dart off the table quickly and tucks him on her shoulder with 
  a soft warning to stay there. 
Broccal waves at Madelaine as he turns to answer Jorai. "It goes great! I 
  love the miners. Strange, considering I never did care much for J'rank 
  Tig, but there you go. :) Oh, and I really liked getting to know Lady 
  phoenix again. 
Mammaw strides east towards the museum. 
Opa chuckles as a Silence seems to fall over the chamber, and she peers 
  suspiciously towards the apprentice tables. 
Jorai sighs a bit, "You like it there, hm?" 
Maura shrinks. 

Weavers> Nalaya hrms, Nala's off on an a commission errand at Boll, 
  methinks...see you all soon. :) 

Broccal nods, looking pleased with himself. "Sure do. And what's more, I 
  get to do more traveling now. On the downside, more work too. :) 
Tessa absently feed bits of fish to her FL's with blue hands. 
Maura finds something utterly facinating on her plate. 
Broccal sits down at one of the Journeyranker Tables. 
Opa says "Well, as long as I'm nearly the only one speaking..." She sets 
  down her fork. "This seems like a good time to welcome some of our newest 
  arrivals." 
Fiona strides in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Jekar ambles in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Duvetyne strolls in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Jorai shakes her head, keeping her voice low. "Master Opa only just heard 
  from all of them, I'm leaving after the meeting." 

Weavers> Mammaw sorries as her keyboard locked up. 

Mammaw wanders in from the craft museum to the south. 
Opa peers around the room. "Now, let's see...I need to find them 
  first...ah, there's one. Maura, can you stand up please?" 
Broccal turns to Jorai with concern. "What took so long, Joey? 
Maarle strides in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Opa points to one of the new arrivals. "Ah yes, and you too, Mammaw." 
Mammaw blinks. "YEs?" 
Broccal nods to the new apps. 
Fiona drops into a seat at the nearest table quietly, so as not to 
  interrupt. 
Jorai shrugs, pushing the food around on her plate, "I don't know, I 
  thought maybe they were going to say I couldn't come." 
Maura freezes for a second, then casts a quick look around, and flushes 
  crimson as she finds many eyes on her. Lower lip firmly between her 
  teeth, she stands. 
Maarle slips into his seat and quietly trips. "Ooops." 
Duvetyne sits down at one of the Journeyranker Tables. 
Broccal reaches out to cover a hand with one of his. "Oh, no one would tell 
  you that, Joey" 
Jekar pauses to see Fiona seated, then dashes into the kitchen, returning 
  with a klah pitcher, as he dutifully and belatedly gets to the refills, 
  keeping an eye on the going-ons. 
Tarith bursts out of *between* and looks for a place to land. 
Maarle sits down at one of the Apprentice Tables. 

Weavers> Fiona says, "I'm going to assume that everyone knows I'm pregnant, 
  K? Since y'all would have seen me wandering around, even though I haven't 
  been. :)" 

Opa points to the two apprentices and addresses the rest of the room. 
  "These are Maura and Mammaw, who have just recently joined us. I'm sure 
  you'll all make them feel very welcome." 
Mammaw sits down at one of the Apprentice Tables. 
Maura forces a little smile and waves to everyone. 
Fiona sits down at one of the Journeyranker Tables. 

Weavers> Opa says "So you're visible?" 
Weavers> Jekar is going to assume everyone assumes he's the father. ;) And 
  he mutters about 'th'-ending FLs 

Mammaw blushes as she sits down and tries to remove the attention from her. 
Opa says, looking around some more, "Some of our other new apprentices are 
  Gemydia, Mairin and Mirtia, but I suppose they're on errands or some such 
  this evening." 

Weavers> Fiona says, "Sorta visible, yes. *pokes Jekar* We don't know 
  that..." 

Jekar repeats the names to himself, then nods to each apprentice in turn. 

Weavers> Mammaw says, "It's Mirtia's birthday and she's with family...she 
  said if she could, she's try to make it...." 

Maura nearly dives back into her chair. 
Opa's pick out another person. "We also have a new paying student, who 
  joins us from...Bitra, wasn't it, Tessa?" 
Opa +eyes 
Tessa blinks, then smiles. And waves a blue hand for a moment before hiding 
  it. "Yes, Master Opa." 

Weavers> Mammaw says, "Mirtia's RL b-day that is..." 

Jorai smiles weakly, but doesn't make any sign of moving her hand. 
Opa looks pleased at having remembered, nods, and takes a few more bites of 
  her dinner. 
Broccal squeezes a moment then releases Jorai's hand slowly, smiling at 
  her. "I'll try to find time to visit you." 
Sachi preoccupiedly eats her dinner. 
Maarle sits down in his bench and munches. 
Jorai brightens, lowering her eyes, "That'd be nice." 

Weavers> Opa warns folks that I'm going to be rearranging the agenda a bit 
  tonight - still covering everything, just in a slightly different order. 
  I hope this doesn't mess with anyone's comfort level. :) 

Johann sends a serving drudge to the hearth. She dips into one of the many 
  large pots with a long-handled spoon, scooping a small plate full of 
  rivergrains and hands it to Fiona. 
Jekar pauses in his klah-refilling to shoot a look at Fiona, since of 
  course /he/ would've got that for her. 
Tessa discovers that her FL's have eaten most of her dinner, shrugs, and 
  sips at a mug of klah. 
Opa pours herself a glass of juice, then reaches under her seat for her 
  sheaf of notes. She squints at them, does a bit of reordering, and then 
  clears her throat. "I have some assignments I would like to announce." 
Fiona rests a hand on her *huge* belly and returns Jekar's look before 
  taking a big bite of her food. 
Maarle steps on the table bench and shouts, "Woohoo!" He then sits down, 
  under the gaze of many an apprentice. All Junior. Great. 
Broccal pats Jorai's hand again as Opa announces posting announcements. 
  "I'm glad you finally get to go." 
Maura eyes Maarle. 
Tessa chuckles quietly. 
Fiona glances over at Maarle, visions of unmended socks dancing in her 
  eyes. 
Broccal turns around to stab a glare at the mrl, daggers shooting across 
  the Hall. 
Jorai fills her glass, gesturing to the rest of the table, "Wine?" 
Opa peers over a sheet of wherhide with a confused frown towards the 
  direction of Maarle's 'woohoo,' but he's now safely ensconsed among his 
  cronies. She looks back again. "Alright...oh yes...Apprentice Kelay!" 
Jekar simply rolls his eyes, and deftly exchanged his empty klah pitcher 
  for a full one, directing a few more drudges to take the plates away from 
  those who are done. 

Weavers> Opa says, "Nonono, *mentoring* announcements. :)" 
Weavers> Broccal says, "Cleona said she was going to try to make the 
  meeting. :( I guess she got busy." 

Broccal raises his hand. "Master Opa? Kelay will be late. I told her it 
  would be okay since she's working furiously on a commisson that I asked 
  her to make changes to. 
Opa ahhhs and nods. "Alright then...in that case, Broccal, will you please 
  inform her when you see her again that she is to report to you?" 
Broccal looks confused. "I'm sorry, ma'am? What is she to report to me 
  for?" 

Weavers> Jekar says, "why, for reports." 

Fiona chuckles and glances over at broccal, "Handy that you get her, 
  considering she's already working for you." 
Opa peers over the sheet again. "I've assigned her as your apprentice, 
  Broccal." 
Jorai sneaks looks at Broccal while he's busy talking, quick to take a sip 
  of wine when his eyes wander her way. 
Comprehension dawns. Broccal says, "Oh, that? No, Fiona, I was the first 
  j'ranker she caught to look at it. 
Broccal nods to Master Opa. "Yes, ma'am. 
Opa nods with satisfaction and looks up again. "Apprentice Mirt..." She 
  looks around. "Oh...Mirtia's not here either, is she." 
Fiona finishes up her platefull of grains and raises it toward Jekar with 
  an expectant look. 
Jorai glances over at the table, frowning slightly at the realization. 
Duvetyne sits down at one of the Journeyranker Tables. 
Fiona raises her /empty/ plate, that is.. 
Sachi glances up at hearing Mirtia's name and grins. 
Maura watches quietly and curiously. 
Jekar immediately hands off his klah pitcher to an empty-handed drudge, and 
  takes Fiona's plate with a smile, dishing a generous portion, and then 
  handing the plate back to the journeywoman with a brief wink. 
Maarle smirks as he looks at Broccal, hiding behind wherry meat. Mmmm. 
Duvetyne yawns a bit and nods to Broccal. 
Tessa sips her klah quietly, listening with great interest. 
Jorai turns back, filling Ty's glass. 
Opa's glance then falls on Jorai. "Well then, can you make sure that she 
  begins reporting to you?" 
Broccal finally realizes what's going on and crosses his fingers, hoping 
  Fee gets the mrl 
Jorai looks around to make sure Opa really is addressing her before 
  smiling, "oh, yes ma'am." 

Weavers> Jorai does the 'I have a slave' dance ;) 

Opa nods again. "Very good." She keeps reading, then calls out, 
  "Journeyrankers Jorai and Fiona!" 
Jekar looks up as Fiona's name is called, curious. 
Fiona chokes on her rice, then glances up at Jorai, "What'd we do?" 
Jorai gives Fiona acurious look, "Got me." 
Opa gives the two a small smile. "You two will please begin reporting to 
  Craftsecond Varina." 
Jorai beams, "Cool." 
Fiona laughs, looking guilty for just a moment, "Yes ma'am." She grins over 
  at Jorai and whispers, "Aren't we lucky? We get the grump." 
Jekar moves to stand behind Fiona, and murmurs down, "Good thing you've had 
  practice with /another/ grouch." 
Broccal asks Fiona, "What's wrong with C2 Varina?" 
Opa skims down further. "And lastly...Journeyrank Broccal, you shall 
  hereafter report to me." She looks up to meet Broccal's eyes. 
Jorai has to cover her mouth to keep from spitting her mouthful of wine 
  across the table. 
Fiona smiles up at Jekar, then looks over at broccal, "Why nothing. I 
  happen to like grouches." 
Broccal's head whips up, a startled look on his face. He meets Opa's eyes 
  and his chin drops for a moment. He stammers, "Uhm, ye yes, ma'am 
Opa sets down her notes and looks around the chamber again. "Well, now 
  that's done, I have a few more announcements. For one, we've had some 
  promotions recently." 
Kelay strides in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Kelay runs in and finds a seat quickly 
Opa looks over as Kelay enters, and gestures to her. "And here's one right 
  now...Kelay has recently been promoted to full apprentice, as have 
  Evaine, Mirtia and Tarma." 
Broccal applauds the women, "Congratulations!" 
Jorai sets down her glass, applauding politely. "Congratulations." 
Tasmin ambles in through the entrance leading out of the Hall. 
Duvetyne cheers! 
Kelay blushes 
Mammaw Smiles. "Congratulations..." 
Jekar would cheer, but, he's generally a quiet fellow. He'd applaud, but by 
  now he's retaken his klah pitcher, and slides a mugful of the brew to the 
  late Kelay. 
Maarle erms, and cheers! He stands up, not on the bench this time. 
Opa smiles and looks over towards Fiona's table. "And Jekar, I'm given to 
  understand that you have moved up in the kitchen hierarchy? Drudge 
  supervisor, isn't it?" 
Tasmin, who was here all the time according to official stories, nods. 
Kelay takes the mug and smiles at Jekar 
Jekar halts, then nods mutely to Opa. 
Fiona joins in the applause, looking back over her shoulder to see where 
  Jekar has gotten to. 
Tessa smiles. 
Jekar flushes, that his name was even mentioned. He murmurs to Fiona, "who 
  takes the time to notice a drudge?" but he shrugs and nods politely at 
  the applause. 
Opa says "Well, very good...very good indeed." She gets Johann to get her a 
  bottle of Benden Red before turning her gaze back to the room-in-general. 
  "Well, one last announcement before dessert...I'd like to toast Jorai's 
  departure to her new posting in the Western Area." 
Broccal raises his glass quickly, smiling into Jorai's sparkling eyes. 
Maura's eyes dart around as if she's trying to remember names and put them 
  to faces. 
Fiona rolls her eyes at Jekar, not commenting before turning to beam a 
  smile at Jorai. "Good luck. You're going to need it," she laughs. 
Kelay wonders if she will ever be old enough to be drinking wine. 
Kelay holds up her mug of klah for the toast. 
Jorai winces at Fiona's comment, just briefly tho cause she's sorta 
  mesmerized. She snaps out of it, "Thank you, Craftmaster." 
Johann pours two glasses of the Benden, handing one to Opa and bringing the 
  other to Jorai with an encouraging smile. 
Duvetyne raises the glass so kindly provided for her. :) 
Mammaw Raises her glass of klah to join in the toast. 
Opa raises her own glass towards Jorai. "I wish you good journeying, 
  Jorai...you will come by my quarters before you leave? The master tailors 
  have put together a volume of design sketches for you to take." 
Jorai takes the glass carefully from Johann, whispering thank you. 
Maura looks around for a cut. 
Jorai nods, "Yes'm." 
Opa takes a sip, puts her goblet down, and reaches into her pocket. 
  "Oh...you may also want to take this with you..." She pulls out a full 
  journeyranker's knot. 
Kelay rises in a cheer 
Fiona grins and reaches to pat Jorai on the shoulder, "That'll come in 
  handy for you." 

Weavers> Jorai says, "YES!!" 

Jorai swallows her wine wrong and just coughs 
Duvetyne woos, "That seems like a record.." 
Opa raises her eyebrows at Jorai. "Well..." she begins in an obviously 
  falsified offended tone, "if it would just add to the weight of your 
  baggage, you don't have to take it." 
Jorai wipes her napkin over her mouth and squeaks, "That..that's for me? 
  No! No, I'll take it!" 
Broccal looks from Opa to Jorai. "If you don't want them, I'll take 'em 
Maura stifles a giggle. 
Opa tilts her head in an attempt to look skeptical. "You're sure?" 
Tessa grins. 
Piper damns..sorry ooc! 
Jorai nods! "yes, please." 
Opa leans forward and holds out the knot. "I thought you might." 

Weavers> Sachi has to leave 

Jorai pushes back her chair and scampers over for the knot, dropping an 
  awkward curtsey, "Thank you!" She starts to turn, then impulsively gives 
  the Craftmaster a hug before scurrying away. 

Weavers> Opa says, "Alright, I'd like to move into OOCness now. Any 
  strenuous objections should be made in the next fifteen seconds. :)" 
Weavers> Fiona says, "Noooooo! We can't get through this at a reasonable 
  hour!" 
Weavers> Broccal says, "Hey, Opa. I think tonight the dinner might end on 
  time, huh?" 
Weavers> Opa laughs. Don't worry Fiona, the two OOC issues will probably 
  take *forever*, that's why I've tried to zoom through the IC bit. 

Broccal smiles at Jorai (a hint of envy?) "congratulations on the 
  promotion, Jorai" 
Jorai gets to the table and slides right into Broc's lap, "Lookie!" 

Weavers> Fiona says, "Whew. That's a relief. :} Though I'm prolly going to 
  have to babyidle in twenty minutes. :)" 

Jorai ohs, are we OOC yet? Woops ;) 
Opa says "Alright! We're now officially OOC <bang of gavel> <SQUEAK!>" 
Jorai hees, now she's in his lap ;) 

Weavers> Maarle dinneridles. "Got anything that -definitely- needs Mrl? 
  HEY, my gavel!! :)" 

Tasmin turns OOC and morphs into ... a small furry dog? 
Jekar grabs Opa's Master knot for his own, finds his crown and sceptre, and 
  laughs evilly. 
Broccal bouncies Jorai. "Hey, this feels nice" 
Maarle urms. 
Jorai nods, course it does. 
Jekar gets jealous of Broc and Jorai, and pulls Fi into his lap "oooof." 
Maura sits back in her chair, proping her feet up on the table and picking 
  at her teeth. OOCly, of course. ;) 
Broccal points to Tasmin. "Hey, a dog wearing a kilt 
Jekar peers at Tas. "Scottish Terrier?" 
Jorai LOL 
Tasmin leaps into Opa's lap. 
Opa says "Alrightee, first issue - ICness of descriptions. Several totally 
  unrelated instances have cropped up recently where people have been 
  questioning the wisdom of having apprentices writing descriptions of 
  fabulously tailored and exquisite, extravagant stuff that ICly they'd 
  never be able to make, being commissioned from people who wouldn't have 
  more than a few marks to spare anyway. :) So I wanted to see whether you 
  guys felt we needed to change that." 
Tasmin * Hey, its ooc and she's busy typi.. ack! 
Fiona pokes at Jek, "I'm not /that/ heavy, so hush." 
Tasmin sulks, "You mean I can't make any more 50 mark ball gowns for 
  drudges?" 
Opa says "Always before it's just been 'if a customer wants something, 
  describe it'. But obviously that doesn't necessarily produce descriptions 
  that would ICly be produced. Thoughts?" 
Mairin says "cool I want to know what I can and can not type..." 
Jekar pokes Fi right back with the jeweled sceptre, and hms at Opa. "The 
  only finery an apprentice should own is gather stuff." 
Maura says "are apprentices allowed to take comissions?" 
Opa says "Yes, apprentices are allowed to take commissions." 
Jekar says "Though who would want to commission an apprentice? Only those 
  who don't have marks. :)" 
Maura says "maybe ICly apprentices should be supervised by a ranking 
  weaver? Could be a NPC, but some reson to explain the quality. :)" 
Broccal says "Has someone been complaining about this, Opa? Or is it your 
  observations?" 
Maarle says "Well, I think it's kinda stupid to be complaining about it. 
  :P" 
Opa nods at Jekar. Case in point. How IC do we want to be with this? 
Jorai says "I have the problem far more with customers that wouldn't have 
  themoney, than with the rank of the crafter. There would presumably be 
  some outstanding people of any rank, they have to start somewhere :}" 
Jekar says "But how many Menolly-weavers can there /be/? :P" 
Fiona says "I'm of the opinion that we should try to stay reasonably IC 
  about desc writing. You can have a fabulously well written desc, but it 
  doesn't have to be a desc of a jewelstudded gown." 
Maarle says "Well, it all comes down to how well you desc. I desc terribly 
  and would give an apprentice a run for his money." 
Jekar descs awesomely, and he's a drudge, so... ;) 
Maura nods to Fiona. Descing flaws is as challenging as descing perfection. 
Broccal says "But your rp makes up for it, mrl" 
Opa says "Nonono, no one's been *complaining*, just commenting - I've had a 
  couple of approvers who have wondered to me, 'is this really the sort of 
  thing an apprentice should be doing?' and Cleona also mentioned that 
  descriptions weren't always strictly canonical. So it seemed to be 
  something that lots of people were thinking about, so I thought I'd bring 
  it up." 
Tasmin never descs stuff as perfectly crafted, himself. "but that' just 
  me." 
Jorai nods to Fiona, "I think part of it is atest of how well you actually 
  describe things, as opposed to how fancy the materials are you say you 
  used.. 
Maarle says "Yeah, sure Broccal. :P Anyway, I think it's just kind of a 
  question of how well someone writes. There are good writers, and bad 
  writers." 
Maarle says "Same as weavers. You just happened to gather good writers." 
Broccal says "I think I understand what Cleona is saying, but what would be 
  considered canonical?" 
Mairin says "Wouldn't some things depend on the char. background..?" 
Fiona says "Yes, exactly. I think it isn't an issue of how well a person 
  writes, more of what they choose to describe. We have some very good 
  writers here." 
Tasmin says "I get tired of the apprentices getting handfasted buying 
  jewel-studded gowns. I refused a commission the other day." 
Jorai says "I'm afraid I don't understand what Maarle is saying :/" 
Kelay says "I think it is much harder to write a desc of simple clothes!" 
Maura says "well, no one is going to allow an apprentice at fancy cloth, 
  for example.." 
Jekar nods. "hm. Reading books, I noticed that anybody who was anybody 
  would commission Masterweaver Zurg himself..." *shrug* :) "descing flaws 
  is fun." 
Broccal says "no one does, dear" 
Opa says "Well, there's the dilemma. Totally canonical would be, say, a 
  simply cut gown with a few stitching flaws in it (although still fairly 
  well made, we are, after all, the Weavers, smarm smarm). But if that's 
  not the kind of description your customer OOCly *wants*...well then, what 
  do you do?" 
Maarle says "No one ever does. I'll just shut up and read. :P" 
Jekar says "tell them to find another person to commission. ;)" 

[disconnect]

Opa killKillKILL!!! 
Jorai acks, she's gone psycho 
Broccal says "Jorai, I think AM wrote about Robinton breathing after his 
  heart attack" 
Tasmin says "When Apprentices take commissions, do they necessarily exceute 
  them themselves, anyway? I i magine they're just order-takers mostly!" 
Jekar hands Opa the gavel, which Jorai wanted to steal *glare* 
Opa says "Were there any salient points that I just missed? <sigh>" 
Maura says "well, but in the books they were mentioned as wearing 
  pants...so it's not an absense of evidence, it's contrary evident." 
Broccal says "Yes, ma'am" 
Jekar laughs at how far THIS went astray. 
Fiona says "Lotsa gavel grabbing and discussions on breathing. :/" 
Opa rolls her eyes. :) 
Broccal says "No. you can't prove something by saying you don't have proof 
  for it" 
Jorai giggles, I stand corrected 
Maura repeats for Opa. "Refer them to a higher rank weaver. And higher rank 
  weavers should refer simpler comissions down to lower ranks. 
Opa wouldn't mind going back to someone's point earlier...can't remember 
  who it was who suggested that apprentices could pass off the great 
  quality of their work as being the result of 'help' from some sort of 
  upper-rank project advisor, NPC or PC. 
Jekar says "innocent 'til proven guilty, though Pern doesn't seem to have 
  this type of judicial system. I think men wearing 'skirts' probably lived 
  at weyrs. ;)" 
Opa thanks, Maura. :) 
Maura says "oh, I'm not saying there /aren't/ kilts...Given the cultural 
  background there almost certainly are...But not everyone wears them." 
Fiona nods to Opa, "I think I just said that might have been repeating 
  someone else." 
Kelay says "I like the idea of claiming help...I have had commissions no 
  one wanted..." 
Tasmin says "But nobody asks us OOCly for simple stuff." 
Broccal nods. "Few chars have commissioned them. I can think of only 
  Cortland and our own Tas 
Tasmin says "And I personally think APprentices DON'T do all the comissions 
  they get themselves." 
Jorai is asked for simple stuff Taz :) 
Maura bows to Opa. Pleasure, Master. :) 
Opa nods at Tasmin and Kelay and Fiona. See, this is the point. People 
  don't ask us for simple stuff (and if they do, we look at them weird :). 
  But I don't want to tell apprentices that no, they can't do commissions 
  if they want. So somewhere between blatantly OOC and strictly IC there's 
  gotta be a happy medium. 
Broccal says "Besides, if a jrank or master has to approve an app's 
  commission first anyway...." 
Mairin says "how do define what's simple (to really stir things up.)" 
Tasmin says "Maybe its the kilt, then. ;)" 
Maura says "Broccal has an idea there." 
Kelay nods at Broccals comment 
Maura says "yeah, apprentices are probably good at kilts. :)" 
Opa says "Okay, is the solution to tell the approvers to be more "harsh" in 
  their definition of what is realistic?" 
Jekar says "I think this: Any apprentice-desc should have flaws. However, 
  it couldn't be passed off and stamped if it weren't better than 
  'passable'. More difficult patterns and rarer fabrics/dyes shouldn't be 
  used." 
Maura says "now, if we can just introduce Navy dress whites to Pern... ;)" 
Broccal says "I don't know if that would work. How are we going to come to 
  a consensus of realistic?" 
Fiona says "I think the main point of this is that they need to come up 
  with a reasonable IC justification for having completed the project. I 
  wouldn't mind apprentices wanting to say that I helped them with a 
  project." 
Jorai says "But who is going to want to wear a desc that says there's a 
  flaw in their outfit?" 
Opa nods at Jekar. Good point. 
Jekar says "There's always @edit." 
Kelay says "I still like the help idea...please don't make me go tell 
  people I can't do their commisions!" 
Jekar says "If they wanted a commission, then they'll get a CANON 
  commission. If they want perfection, talk to a master, or write your own 
  desc (or come to me) ;)" 
Opa grins at Jorai. Another good point. But playing devil's advocate, how 
  can you ask an apprentice for a description and not expect that there 
  would be IC flaws? 
Jorai says "You can't :)" 
Fiona says "I don't think there has to be a flaw in the desc for there to 
  be a flaw in the creation. A seaming error could be RPed without being 
  written into a desc, for example. We really should RP working around here 
  more, anyway." 
Opa grins at Broccal. Oh, come on, how hard can it be to write a 
  straight-and-narrow definition of 'realistic'? ;) 
Jorai gasps, work 
Opa says "Okay, no seriously. How's about this..." 
Maura says "how about if an apprentice gets a comission, they accept it, 
  but tell the person they're taking it from that "I'm going to need help". 
  Then at least ICLy have a ranking weaver help, ICly have it approved, and 
  so on." 
Broccal squirms uncomfortably, shifting Jor to the other leg. 
Maura shuts up. :} 
Jekar says "Realism: ACCEPTANCE of actual conditions... :)" 
Jorai yeeks, putting an arm around his neck. 
Opa says "If an approver comes across a description which the apprentice 
  could not possible have made by themselves (because of the fabric use, or 
  the complexity of the design, or whatever), they get the apprentice to 
  pass it off as having been ICly made with "help"?" 
Jorai thinks that sounds good Maura 
Opa nods. I think what I just said and what you just said are pretty close, 
  Maura. :) 
Fiona says "I think we all need to remember that our jobs aren't just based 
  on descing, we're all RPers too. I personally hate writing descs, but 
  that doesn't mean I can't RP working on commissions. :)" 
Kelay NOds loudly! 
Tessa likes that idea. 
Jekar says "this is why the seals say 'apprentice made, with a masters 
  stamp of approval'..." 
Maura nodernoders. 
Kelay says "fiona...can I stop doing commisions and have time to rol play?" 
Jekar says "Do both? Rp working on commissions. ;)" 
Opa says "Well, actually, Kelay, I'll be discussion that in our next OOC 
  item issue. :)" 
Kelay smiles at Jekar 
Fiona blinks, "Well, if you're spending all your online time doing nothing 
  but writing descs for other people and are happy with that, I won't make 
  you stop, but it seems to me that RP is at least as fun as being cheap 
  creative labo." :) 
Jekar idly notes that Fiona like to RP because /he/ does descs for her ;) 
Kelay says " I like to write the descs...but I haven't had much play time." 
Jekar Wells, it /is/ a RPGame, not a Desc Game, so... 
Fiona grins at Jek, "Yes, well there's that. And Kelay, you don't /have/ to 
  take every commission offered you. Pass some along if you're too busy. 
  Remember that ICly it takes time to actually create things, too." 
Opa says "Okay, how's this...let's empower both apprentices and approvers. 
  Apprentices get to decide whether they want to accept commissions for 
  flowing satiny gowns from drudges, and then approvers can decide whether 
  the apprentice should be ICly saying that they had help with the gown." 
Jekar says "Any drudge that buys a satiny gown isn't a drudge. ;)" 
Maura says "sounds like a good division of labor. :)" 
Kelay says "I agree!" 
Opa likes to use exaggerations to make her points. ;) 
Broccal chuckles at Jekar as he sneezes from the hair in his nostrils 
Opa says "Right! Solution found. Thanks muchly, guys. :) Onwards..." 
Jorai says "I guess I think that people are going to do what they want to, 
  regardless, it just bears mentioning now and again that people don't 
  really have money and all :}" 
Fiona ewws at broccal, "Nice image." ;) 
Opa noodles at Jorai. 
Jorai heys, "I just washed that." 
Opa says "Next! Promotions: a.k.a. Tons o' Opaspam, all prewritten 
  (unfortunately not pretyped). Get your scroll features ready, boys and 
  girls. :)" 
Jekar says "Promotions! they're a good thing. ;)" 
Fiona does a fairydance around Opa while she's busy tippitytapping. ;) 
Opa says "We had a discussion about promotions a few months ago, which was 
  unfortunately cut short. Recently, a couple of people have taken the time 
  to point out that there are still issues there which need to be looked 
  at, and they've voiced some confusions and concerns. I'd like to stay 
  right now that I truly am grateful to these people - I said it before and 
  I'll say it again, I'm not going to "blast" anyone for raising the issue 
  with me." 
Jekar does the "I'm a King but I'm still a love-slave" dance. 
Jorai giggles at Jekar, images of Snoopy in her head 
Opa says "Varina and I do discuss lots of craft matters regularly, but we 
  are only two people and cannot be everywhere. I certainly can't assume 
  that we have our fingers completely on the pulse of the mood of this 
  Hall. The attitude of "if I can't see a problem, there isn't one" is, to 
  me, an arrogant one, and so I am grateful to those people who have 
  emailed me to point out that there still are concerns and questions (and 
  criticisms) of which I may not be aware." 
Opa says "I'd also like to apologize to these people for not answering them 
  personally yet - in the last three weeks my online time has been 
  completely taken up by a) answering +mail so that the wizards don't kill 
  me for having a huge mailbox and b) interviewing an astonishingly large 
  number of (but *very* happily received :) apprentice wannabes." 
Maura whistles innocently. ;) 
Opa says "*Anyway*, based on what I've been receiving, I've come up with 
  what appear to be the two (count 'em, 2) main issues for concern. I'll 
  address these one by one, and after talking about each, I will take 
  comments from all of you guys - in an orderly way. :) If you want to 
  comment or ask a question, page me and I'll put you on the queue." 
Jekar isn't snoopy. Hmph. 
Opa says "First issue is: What *is* the basis for promotion, anyway?" 
Opa says "It would appear that some people are under the impression that 
  doing a lot of descriptions gets you promotions. Others may think it 
  could be RP. Others may have no clue, and I think the bit in '+info 
  weaver ranks' about RP and activity may not be enough of an explanation." 
Opa says "My response is that what I primarily hope to see in a Weaver is 
  roleplay. To explain: When I became CM almost a year ago, I was coming 
  into leadership of a Hall which almost never saw roleplay - if anyone was 
  on, they were either posted somewhere else or they stayed in their room. 
  Changing this has been my top priority in the last year. Compared to 
  this, Weavers doing descriptions takes a low priority for me." 
Opa says "This is not at all to say that people should stop describing if 
  it's something that they like doing. Heck, I like doing it, :)and I'm 
  well aware that a lot of other people like it a great deal as well, that 
  it's part of the reason they're in this craft. I'm also not saying that 
  deciding to do descriptions takes away from your chances at getting 
  promoted. However, if you're wondering why you haven't been promoted when 
  you've been churning out seven descs a day for the last month, the answer 
  is probably that you haven't been roleplaying. :)" 
Opa says "Descriptions are fun, descriptions are great, but quite frankly, 
  it's far better for Weavers to be RPing all the time than descing all the 
  time. I'm sorry if this disappoints anyone who really likes descing, but 
  it's RP which makes the Weaverhall grow, it's RP which gets us 
  interacting with each other, it's RP which gives us a reputation for 
  being a good, active place and it's RP which is the driving force of 
  PernMUSH as a whole." 
Fiona amen's from the back of the room. ;) 

Weavers> Mirtia says, "Hello everyone! :)" 

Opa says "On the other hand, describing does indicate that a person is 
  getting involved with the craft in some way. Thus there have been 
  circumstances where a person has been given a promotion based on the fact 
  that they have been active via doing descriptions. However, this should 
  not happen twice to the same person, and it is not sufficient for the 
  higher-level promotions (i.e. jr. journeyranker and up)." 
Jorai giggles at Fiona, "My hand to God!" 
Mirtia steps in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Mirtia comes skipping in with a grin, "Hi!" 
Jorai waves to Mirtia, "Ah, my little slave.. 
Opa says "e.g. No one's going to get promoted to master on the basis that 
  they've done a lot of commissions. Likewise, no one's going to get 
  promoted from jr. app to full app *and* from full app to sr. app solely 
  on the basis of desc writing. Consistent, day-to-day RP activity is a 
  sure way to go (and is presumably the reason we're all here on the game 
  :)." 
Mirtia bounces over to Jorai to give her a hug, "Little slave?" 
Opa says "BTW, when I say "day-to-day" I don't mean you have to be here 
  every day, I mean the nitty-gritty, character-driven RP which drives this 
  game, as opposed to only roleplaying when there's a Special Event such as 
  a gather or a hatching, or, oh, say, a Weavermeet. ;)" 
Tasmin waves at Mirtia. 
Mirtia waves to Tasmin! 
Jorai hugs :) 
Mammaw waves at Mirtia. 
Opa says "For promotions to higher ranks, naturally, more than just "do you 
  RP" is important. Things like the quality of one's RP start being looked 
  at, as is a Weaver's proactiveness (are you capable of starting off a RP 
  situation or do you usually wait for others to start something?). Also, 
  because higher ranks such as journeyranker mean things like mentoring and 
  postings, initiative and leadership start becoming considerations." 
Broccal nods agreement with Opa. 
Jorai says "Hey, I do my best Rp here. (scary, i know)" 
Mirtia waves to Mammaw to, and hurries over to find a place at a table. 
Broccal patpats Jorai's hand. "You do good rp as the ditz, dearie." 
Cleona wanders in from the inner courtyard. 
Jorai laughs, and what if that wasn't what i was going for, hm? 
Opa says "There are a few things which may hold you back from being 
  promoted, even if you're fabulously active. For instance, IC 
  considerations, e.g. your IC age - no one who's 12 is going to get 
  promoted to journeyrank level, obviously. Another IC consideration is 
  your character. If you have this terrific, active char who generates 
  awesome RP because they're a completely immature brat with very little 
  Weavercraftish talent who's constantly getting into trouble, much as I 
  might *love* to promote you to journeyrank because of your great 
  contributions to crafthall RP, I can't, because there's no IC reason to 
  promote such a person into such a position. :(" 
Broccal waves to Cleona, putting Jorai down long enough to hug her welcome 
  to the hall 
Mirtia notices the new knot on Jorai's shoulder, and gives her another hug, 
  "Congrats!!!" 
Opa waves to a Cleona! 
Mirtia waves to Cleona with a big smile. 
Cleona chuckles and hugs Broccal, waves to all and sundry and all that 
  stuff. 
Jorai waves :) 
Jorai hugs again, too :) 
Mairin chuckles. 
Opa says "There are OOC considerations as well. If you're the world's most 
  active senior apprentice, but you're still consistently making basic RP 
  errors (thinking out loud, force-posing, bringing OOCness into your RP, 
  etc.), then you're not going to get promoted to jr. journeyrank right 
  away." 
Duvetyne waves to Cleona. :) 
Broccal says "oh, that was my prob. :)" 
Morayne walks in through the archway from the teaching wing. 

Weavers> Morayne coulda sworn that was *her* problem. ;) 

Opa says "Lastly on this topic, I'd like to emphasize that the most 
  important thing I hope everyone does around here is have fun. :) Now I'd 
  like to open the floor for you guys to comment or ask any questions about 
  "What *is* the basis for promotions, anyway?" Page me to get on the 
  queue, and I'll indicate when it's your turn. Jekar, you're first." 
Broccal waves at his sister 
Jekar says "First and foremost: Competent RP. Actions speak louder than 
  words (I don't know if this has much bearing, as we need to /write/ our 
  actions about) but that's as opposed to doing nothing but desc. I think 
  it should be a balance of the two, though I would definitely swing over 
  toward RP more, even though I /am/ a descer. I just incorporate descs 
  into my RP. Now, I can RP being a weaver, but I wouldn't know a...a.. 
  spinning wheel from a loom, really. You need to have an idea of what 
  you're talking about, after all. Descs, sometimes, /can/ be a good way to 
  start RP... 'I love your dress' and all that rot. Anyhoo. For a 
  promotion, I think you should be able to do /both/ pretty well, before 
  one can be promoted to, well, Sr. App, I think. I have a Harper alt who's 
  written bunches of songs, but he needs to RP at Gathers and other public 
  junk for a /long/ while before he can even be promoted to full 
  apprentice, prolly. RP is definitely the key, for a RPing game, but if we 
  don't do descs, well, that means a lot of twinkish descs might be out 
  there, and frankly, I'd have nothing to really brag about. ;)" 
Opa . o ( whoa ) 
Jekar types very fast. ;) 
Morayne smiles cheerily. "Hi all." *blink* 
Tasmin faints. 
Cleona takes a seat and listens with a smile. 
Opa says "Any more, Jekar? :)" 
Maura scrollbackscrollbacksrollback....:} 
Jorai chuckles :) 
Jekar wunners who agrees? O:} 
Morayne *finally* finishes reading. "There's something there..." 
Kelay laughs, "I know looms and wheel but need a lot of work on the rest!!! 
Mirtia nods her head in agreement with Kekar, and looks about for him a 
  drink for hids parched throat! (or a tub for his fingers! :) ) 
Fiona agrees, in essence. 
Opa says "Well, I'd be pretty okay with wanting a combination of the two 
  with an emphasis on RP if it weren't for the fact that we do get people 
  here who don't like describing, don't think they're good at describing, 
  but do *adore* roleplay." 
Jorai says "I do agree, that I see opa's point, definitely, but do also 
  think at some point you have to have proven you do know how to desc 
  clothing well, or you could have been doing that wondrful rp in another 
  craft :)" 
Broccal says "No, Jorai. Not all of us are tailors" 
Jorai says "Im thinking of it more from the outside..when I have a question 
  about what animals are canon, I want the herder to be able to tell me :}" 

Weavers> Mirtia says, "Sorry Jekar. I'm pretty fumble fingered tonight. :)" 

Jekar says "This is WEAVERHALL. People want clothes to incorporate into 
  their DESCS... connection? You don't have to be the best descer in the 
  world, but even those who are horrid descers can /learn/ to become better 
  at it. I was once a horrible descer, believe it or not" 
Jorai nods, I meant weaver-related, sorry :} 
Opa says "Okay, these are all great points which I want to respond to, but 
  Fiona's next on the queue. :}" 
Broccal says "okay. sorry if i sounded harsh, luv" 
Fiona spends a few minutes typing... 
Jekar shuts up for Fiona. :) 
Tasmin says "I could believe it, Jekar." 
Jorai leans back in her comfy chair and keeps hermouth shut 
Opa knows that this issue will generate a lot of discussion, you see, and I 
  think we'll all go nuts with spam unless we go person by person, so. :) 
Morayne hmms. "Marketing idea: Nutty Spam? :)" 
Mirtia settles back to listen and learn after getting a drink of juice from 
  Johann. 
Mairin gags. 
Jorai ewwwwwwws 

Weavers> Broccal says, "So much for finishing on time" 

Mirtia giggles. 

Weavers> Opa says, "Hey, we can finish in the next 11 
  minutes...sure...yeah..." 

Kelay signs as she will have to go get those kids she took to an activity 
  when the meeting began...sob sob 

Weavers> Morayne heehees. But can everyone finish *reading* in 11 mins? 

Opa hugs Kelay. Very few people stay for the entire length of any meeting. 
  :) 
Fiona says "My issue is mainly a concern of jmen being promoted to master 
  rank. We've got a growing bunch of journeyrankers who I assume at least 
  some of which would like to someday be masters. I'd like for us to 
  consider some sort of official 'program' if you will where we have to 
  perform certain tasks to achieve that last promotion. Perhaps a major 
  descing project would be a part of it, but I think it should involve 
  RPing doing some heavy studying and the like. This doesn't need to be 
  discussed now, but I'd like some input eventually, because personally, 
  I'd like that promotion, but I'd also like it to be special." 
Jekar has stayed the entire length of each one, hasn't missed one since 
  joining the Hall, and doesn't complain about anything but STUs. ;) 
Tasmin says "Once again proving what an excellent human being Jekar is." 
Maura quietly notes that the amount of masters would actually be few...most 
  people would be j'rank.... 
Fiona says "Yes, that's true Maura, all the more reason to make it a 
  difficult promotion. However, many other crafts have a plethora of 
  masters, and I fell if the player deservers the rank, he or she should be 
  given it." 
Kelay think s Fiona has a good point...we are growing quickly. There will 
  be more and more in the future. 
Broccal says "Maura, there are more apps than there are pc's, right?" 
Jekar bows. ;) "It's like the bio-energy pyramid, producers at the bottom 
  (apprentice manual labor) consumers, who literally do that (J'man) and 
  then those scary predators, Masters. :) Always be more appies than 
  anything else. 
Opa nods. I agree. We need masters. But, because we have so few active ones 
  right now, any new ones are going to be very OOCly leaderish (as opposed 
  to crafts where there are lots of masters). So I'm really careful when I 
  start considering people for that kind of a rank. But that's a good 
  point, Fiona, maybe I should have some sort of program kind of thing. 
Tasmin says "Actually, Jekar, its nothing of the sort -- Masters don't eat 
  Journeyfolk. ;)" 
Morayne yeahs, "But Tas... Jmen do occasionally snack on apps." 

Weavers> Kelay says, "Bye all, I will check if any of you are here when I 
  get back." 

Tasmin says "Only Fi." 
Jekar hehs 
Opa says "I do agree that it wil be very special. I also agree that anyone 
  who deserves it should get it. Absolutely." 
Fiona nods to Opa, then grins, "Of course, with so few masters online, a 
  lot of those ooc duties are falling on us jmen anyway." 
Mirtia cautiously inputs, "Having a few more Masters might help ease the 
  strain for Master Opa and Master Cleona too...We're alot to be 
  responsible for. :)" 
Morayne adds on Master Varina too. 
Tasmin says "And Master Taz, also." 
Mirtia nods, not meaning to overlook anyone. 
Jekar says "And Jekar. :P" 
Opa thwaps the various folks with delusions of grandeur. :) Okay, let's go 
  back to the issue Jorai was talking about re descriptions vs RP, and then 
  after that Cleona's up. 
Opa says "My way of thinking is that doing descriptions isn't necessarily 
  the only way a person is going to learn about Weaver-type stuff." 
Tasmin says "In fact, its a fairly bad one ;)" 
Opa says "So the way I see it, if a Herder never codes up dogs which pass 
  their genes onto their children and a Weaver never describes anything, 
  that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter which Craft they join - the 
  quality of the RP is going to be different even if they don't do the OOC 
  stuff." 
Fiona idles for a few... 
Jorai thinks she did a horrid job of saying what she meant :} 
Opa says "Okay, then, try again, Jorai. :)" 
Broccal bouncies Jorai and looks into her eyes. "What? what??" 

Weavers> Duvetyne says, "I need to get to bed, all, nightnight!" 

Jorai says "Well like we're sposed to be approving people's descs and 
  all..I personally happened to like what you and Varina have done and I 
  trusted your suggestions on ho I could improve mine.." 
Duvetyne moves through the large doorway to the north and outside the 
  Weavercrafthall. 

Weavers> Madelaine says, "Sorry ppl - I'm doing wizgod stuff on SabbatMUSH, 
  so I will just have to read the log later - I can't do the spam.." 

Opa says "Well I'm not saying 'don't do descs, it's Bad, it's 
  Counterproductive', etc. It's not, it's fun. :) But I place a higher 
  priority on RP. I don't think people who desc should be 'penalised', nor 
  do I think that people who don't desc should be 'penalised'. But I don't 
  think it's right to promote people who desc a lot but rarely get out and 
  RP. 

[disconnect] 

Jorai hees, nice lag 
Morayne erps. SHe poofed! "You'd have to be passing at both skills, I'd 
  think." 
Broccal takes up the gavel while no one's looking 
Fiona says "I disagree that a weaver needs competency in descing. I'm an 
  adequate descer, but one reason why I specialized in spinning is so ICly 
  I wouldn't /have/ to desc." 
Jekar says "No, you specialized in spinning to please me ;)" 
Broccal agrees with Fiona. "I went into weaving so I wouldn't have to 
  disappoint ppl with my tailor skills 
Jorai chuckles 
Fiona pokes Jek, "No, I have you around for when I do have to desc 
  something is all." 
Opa says "Okay, so basically it seems that there's one camp that belives 
  Weavers should have descing competency and another that believes Weavers 
  shouldn't have to have descing competency. Well, I'm part of the second 
  camp, obviously. :)" 
Tasmin says "I think, Jerkar, that you've got the analogy wrong. Shonogar 
  was quite a character. THAT'S Rp!" 
Jekar says "But he didn't /move/ was my point. Hardly seen." 
Jorai says "It never actually occured to me that people joined who didn't 
  like to desc, since that is the reason I joined. Should Tailors at lease 
  be able to desc then?" 
Tasmin says "He was seen- he ran instruction, classes, etc. He was active." 
Jekar baps Tasmin, and gives up. 
Tasmin says "He was at least non-vegetative ;)" 
Tasmin says "And I think anyone who can RP doesn't need to desc - because 
  RP is just on-the-fly DESCing anyhow ;)" 
Opa shakes her head. No, it's not my opinion that they do. Some person may 
  adore roleplaying the life of a tailor, but may have no desire to 
  actually describe clothes. 
Broccal considers Tas's comment. "In some ways, i think you're right, esp 
  if you have good poses in your rp." 
Jekar tries to find another analogy. "Is awesome RPing the /only/ way one 
  becomes a dragonrider? No, you need to be friends with the WLs too. er, 
  hm. ;)" 
Mirtia cocks her head a little, "I had thought we all had at least SOME 
  ability to desc, or we'd be formless blobs to each other. To me it seems 
  wonderful that the Weavercraft is versatile enough to allow people who 
  don't ENJOY descing to still be active witho 
Fiona nods, "A tailor may have to spend more time explaining that they 
  don't actually write descs than, say a fibre-er, though." 
Maura says "how often does a desc get looked at? How often is RP 
  experienced? Clearly, RL is more important that Descs, when ballances 
  this way. Good RP will always save a bad desc....A good desc will never 
  save bad RP." 
Cleona says "Why don't you have two paths to promotion then?" 
Tasmin doesn't really do DESC's. I stick to NPC commissions, naturally, but 
  I just find them boring ;) 
Jekar says "Should someone who ONLY descs get a promotion?" 
Broccal says "recently, minermaster susaen asked me to do some descs for 
  master lily. when i met with lily, i explained tailoring isn't my 
  specialty, but she didn't mind." 
Tasmin would rather get out and RP. I think it contributes more to, say, 
  run through the hall flipping skirts than it would be to sit in my room 
  @descing the varieties of hem. 
Maura says "no, because this is a RP based MUSH." 
Cleona says "Yes, if they're doing all the descs the rest of you don't WANT 
  to do." 
Mirtia eeps nand finishes, "without dressing people...I meant to say..." 
Opa shakes her head. No, that's the problem. I don't think that a person 
  who only descs should get a promotion because I view RP as the 
  'lifeblood' of what makes the Weaverhall grow. (oh, the poeticness of it 
  all...) 
Fiona says "Is there any other craft on Pern where the members are actually 
  expected to produce a product for the consumption of other player like we 
  are? I mean, for example, the Seacraft doesn't have to desc out the fish 
  the tithe to the weyr to recieve their promotions do they?"" 
Broccal says "Herders?" 
Jekar says "Icly, to be a j'man, one has to presumably know the foundations 
  of each subcraft, and a good grasp on what the whole of being that 
  Crafter is like. Why should this OOC thing be so different? A bit of 
  both, passable, should suffice for a promotion." 
Cleona says "They're expected to build ships, aren't they?" 
Maura says "NC /longlong/ ago passed the need for building, and also 
  longlong ago passed the need for db conservation. We just don't /need/ 
  endless descs upon descs. We /do/ need roleplaying, which is always more 
  creative, and more importantly, more /social/ that descing." 
Jorai assumed some of the Miners did, but can't swear to it 
Broccal nods to the little redhead on his lap. "Yeah, them" 
Mairin glances at the chicken in her right hand then at the egg in her 
  left. With a larg sigh she throws both of them out the window. 
Opa says "Yes, some crafts' members are expected to 'produce' real tangible 
  objects or descriptions or whatever. But I don't agree with that 
  philosophy. What I truly want in this Hall is tons o' RP. :)" 
Mirtia giggles, and grins at Opa. 
Tasmin would rather RP descing than desc. Other like to desc sometimes, 
  too. I personally think RP should be the only requirement, with descing 
  as a bonus ;) 
Broccal laughs. "I didn't have desc'd clothing until today. 
Morayne still doesn't either. I have a green ribbon, that's it. :) 
Opa says "Okay, I think we've kept Cleona waiting on the queue long enough. 
  Let's let her go, and anyone else with comments, page me. :)" 
Tasmin says "I run around nude in my rider-alt. ;)" 
Maura says "live at Igen or Ista, Tasmin? :)" 
Jekar crosses his fingers. Not Igen. 
Tasmin says "Neither. :>" 
Tasmin is a /real/ rider. Real riders live at Benden and flirt with 
  everyone. ;) 

Weavers> Morayne thinks she'll go read the log later. G'night all! :) 

Morayne strolls into the kitchen. 
Jekar rolls his eyes. /Benden/. 
Cleona says "You know..I find it almost comically amusing that I, in my OOC 
  capacity as quota wiz and one of the firm supporters of RP over coding 
  anyday, seem to be on the other side of the fence here." 
Opa grinz at Cleona. I had noticed that, but I wasn't going to say anything 
  cuz I know how you love descing. :) 
Cleona says "I'd like to suggest to all of us that we don't fall victim to 
  the pendulum syndrome, going from one extreme to the other, with no pause 
  in the middle." 
Cleona says "You're going to have people here who absolutely, positively 
  _need_ your help to dress themselves appropriately and ICly. If you don't 
  want to do it, cool. :) But do make sure they get passed on to someone 
  who does." 
Fiona says "Oh, absolutely. :)" 
Mirtia ponders aloud, "Why not make being promoted in a specialty be 
  dependant on competency in it? Tailors make good descs, spinners create 
  good thread, weavers goog tapestries, etc... 
Cleona says "Now, I know things have changed since I was an apprentice, and 
  sat in my room and churned out commission after commission, it's the dino 
  syndrome, I guess." 
Jekar peers. Did I /not/ say that one should be good at both RP and desc? 
  :) 
Cleona says "And I'm proud to see that the Hall has become such a great 
  place for RP." 
Tasmin says "I like to RP being a tailor but hate doing silly comissions." 
Maura chases after Cleona, looking for another sample for Jurassic Park... 
  ;) 
Cleona peers back at Jekar. "Well, some people aren't, Jekar. And that's 
  the point I was trying to get at. Capitalize on your assets. 
Opa nodnods at Cleona. 
Cleona says "But Tasmin, are they _silly_ commissions to the people who 
  really really want that desc?" 
Opa says "That's what I did when I was an apprentice - just churn out those 
  babies. But boy was there ever zero roleplay in the Hall." 
Cleona rpd all over the place, getting those commissions, don't get her 
  wrong about that. 
Broccal says "Same thing when I came up, Opa. I wasn't good at descing. :/" 
Tasmin says "I propose we make it easy to get desc's from the tent for 
  anyone who wants desc's. And weavers only HAVE to RP." 
Opa says "Maura, go ahead with your comment. :)" 
Tasmin says "Doing desc's is OOC. :)" 
Jorai says "I thought that was part of what we were here to do, help teach 
  good descing.." 
Maura says "well, we sould discourage people from descing, we should just 
  depriortize is...It's not necessary for promotion, but it will be taken 
  into consideration. No pressure on the non-descers to desc, but no 
  pressure on the descers to /not/ desc. Did any of that make sense? :)" 
Broccal beams at Opa. "She tried teaching me." 
Maura eeps! 
Maura says "we /shouldn't/ discourage...." 
Maura says "does it make any more sense now? :}" 
Mirtia shakes; nods her head in agreement with Maura, and adds, "Why did 
  most of us become Weavers in the first place? For me, it was so that I 
  could be creative and productive in an environment where there were other 
  creative productive people... 
Jekar just wunners why people can't /learn/ to do descs. I don't like math, 
  I have to do /that/ at school. :) 
Mirtia grins, I meant the nods part! =) 
Maura says "why /should/ they learn?" 
Opa holds up her hands. Okayokayokay. :) Fiona, you're up, then Jorai. 
Jekar says "Weavers clothe people. Clothes are in descs... *shuts up now*" 
Tasmin says "Because this is fun, Jekar. Not work or school, Jerkar. :)" 
Fiona types, just a sec... 
Jekar likes school, ;P 
Opa says "And after that I'm going into the second promotions related issue 
  because it's already horribly late." 
Maura says "but for the most part people clothe themselves here...We don't 
  have lots of people runing about naked...Unless they forgot to reset 
  their multidescer of course... ;)" 
Maura crawls under a table and shuts up again. :} 
Tasmin says "Some of us do by choice, Maura ;)" 
Tessa likes descing cause it gives people something to look at. But she'd 
  rather RP, it's more fun. She shuts up now. 
Jorai says "A lot of people clothe themselves here badly" 
Broccal nods. 
Fiona says "I used to belong to an organization where to get promoted, you 
  basically had to take tests, however, the people with rank were given 
  leadership responsibilites and assumed to have the knowledge to lead. I 
  think thats the main problem with promoting people who simply desc and 
  dont RP. You end up with this person with a high rank whom others will 
  assume has authority and leadership within the craft who may not even be 
  able to put together a pose with a say. In this other organization, youd 
  suddenly have the equivalent of a Master coming out of nowhere because 
  theyd quietly been passing tests, but didnt have a clue of how to lead. I 
  think perhaps descing can be a consideration for lower rank promotion, 
  but once you get to jman and above, theres a certain amount of leadership 
  skill needed, and that shows up through RP." 
Fiona sighs as all her ' dissappered. 
Jekar loves Fiona, *snug* '-less as she is. 
Opa says "Jorai?" 
Jorai says "I am not at all saying RP isn't needed and expected and 
  wonderful. I'm saying that people should be able to come to a Jman and 
  get some amount of help, or at least be pointed to someone that could be 
  a help. Mirtia had to go find a Miner or Smith that could talk to her 
  about what might be used as sequins and how expensive, etc, what if they 
  all said 'sorry, we just RP, we don't actually know about those things'. 
  We'd all sit here going 'what a bogus craft'. I dont think people that 
  never RP should be promoted just on their descing, I do think that if 
  you're that wonderful at RP, you must already be a good speller and have 
  a good grasp of grammar and be able to desc your way out of a paper bag, 
  so you wouldn't have anything to worry about. To take part of Fiona's 
  comment, you'd end up with a Master that walked around with typos in 
  their desc that couldn't tell a newbie what leggings look like." 
Fiona giggles at the last, "Good point." 
Deresh walks in through the archway from the teaching wing. 
Jekar says "hear hear!" 
Jorai says "I might not *like* rping sitting there with at a spinning wheel 
  for hours, tedious task that it is, but supposedly I'd be able to make a 
  pose or two about it?" 
Tasmin doesn't plan to @desc. Then again, he doesn't plan to be promoted 
  either, so its moot. 
Opa thanks everyone tons for their comments. :) I just have the one last 
  response to Jorai's last comment before I go into the second promotions 
  issue, and that's that if you join a craft, you *should* know the basics 
  of your craft because you need to *RP* it, as you say, Jorai. But I don't 
  think that the only way you get that knowledge is through description 
  writing. 
Broccal says "But, many of us do plan to be promoted" 
Maura notes that many healers don't actually know how to doctor... 
Fiona nods to Maura, "Damn Skippy." 
Jekar says "And I haven't been a dragonrider in RL :)" 
Opa says "*Anyway*, I want to keep going with this. :) Apologies, but here 
  we go..." 
Tasmin says "I think its unrealistic to force people to know about 
  engineering to be a smith. That's why this is RP. 'cuz we can be 
  something else." 
Jorai says "I never said I could actually operate a spinning wheel, 
  either.." 
Opa says "Second issue is: True or false - only those who RP with Opa get 
  promoted?" 
Maura merges with Fiona? :) 
Fiona will give you lessons, Jorai. ;) 
Jekar doesn't really RP with Opa, he got promoted, too late ;) 
Tasmin says "Come to Williamsburg, Jorai. ;)" 
Mirtia says "False." 
Broccal says "Trick question?" 
Maura hasn't been here long enough to test that theory. :) 
Opa can't sew an outfit to save her life, btw. :) But I can *pretend* I 
  know how pretty passably (I hope! :) 
Mairin says "we need to learn to rely on each other's talents." 
Opa says "From what I've been told, there is an underlying perception that 
  this is the case (that only those who RP with me get promoted). This, to 
  me, is very serious. I would like to go on record as saying that I don't 
  *want* this to be the case, I don't think it should be the case, and I do 
  try to make sure that this isn't the case. Varina and I give out 
  promotions in good faith, because we think people merit them, not because 
  they're or best friends or they suck up or we know they have a 
  high-ranking alt, or any of that hogwash. :)" 
Tessa RL hates any kind of needlework, but loves to RP it. 
Jekar blinks. "Co-crafting!" *bangs head against wall* 
Broccal says "Opa, if that were the case, we'd never get promoted with you 
  trying to keep those nasty wizzes off your back" 
Jorai says "Which nasty wizzes "_" 
Jorai :) 
Deresh says "I don't think it's like that, Opa. It's just hard to know who 
  to promote when you don't see them at work ...." 
Jekar likes the sound of that better and better. Co-crafting. Yes, that 
  sounds good. If you're a good descer, generally, you're a good RPer (i've 
  found)...hm 
Deresh can understand that, "But then what are the options for those who 
  can't be on when you, or another person like Varina aren't around?" 
Opa says "However, having said all that, I can see where the idea that 
  "only those who RP with me get promoted" comes from. If what is being 
  looked for is RP, and you come on and RP when I'm not around, how am I 
  going to know that you do RP? Good question. I'm certainly not on 24 
  hours a day, and that's why I have always collaborated with Varina when 
  picking out who should be promoted. Of course, while Varina is often on 
  when I am not, she's not on 24 hours a day, either." 
Cleona smiles blandly at Broccal. 
Broccal nods. "That brings up a question I'd had. How do you know if Fiona, 
  Ty, Jorai, or I deserve a promo when we're posted? 
Opa smiles at Deresh. Questions and comments come after I've gone through 
  my version of the issue, just page me if you want to get on the queue. 
Deresh eeeps and is getting Opa's thoughts telepathically, or something. ;) 
Broccal eeps also 
Broccal says "Opa, you took a breath, so we thought you were done" 
Maura suspects that those who think that only the CM's friends get promoted 
  are in the same camp as those tho think only the WL's friends get 
  Impressed. They're both wrong, generally. 
Jekar says "of course they are :)" 
generally 
Jorai laughs at Jekar :) 
Opa says "So what to do? I totally agree that it is *not* fair for someone 
  to not get the promotion they deserve simply because the people who give 
  out the promotions aren't on when that person is RPing. But because there 
  are really only two of us who give out the promotions, it's not easy to 
  make them equitable and consistent across the board. It's a dilemma." 
Opa says "Recently, since we've been getting more and more journeyrankers, 
  Varina and I have been casually asking some of them whether they have 
  noticed any people being active and meriting promotional consideration. I 
  think that's helped. I know there are people I never see who have been 
  referred for promotions by this method, people who would never have been 
  promoted based on my observations alone." 
Fiona nodnodnods to that. :) 
Jekar sees 3 paths to getting a promo. All desc, All RP, and then the 
  middle, which I'd prefer. But after all this, I can kind of agree that 
  any one of the three should deserve promos. *sigh* 
Broccal says "How are you going to be promoted, Jekar?" 
Jekar says "By Fiona's prompting." 
Jorai giggles..when he kills off the big guy.. 
Deresh sees she came back to Weaving at just the right time, then. :) 
Tasmin says "I sorta feel like anyone should be able to reccomend people 
  they've RP'd with and find cool for promotion, fi they feel its not 
  forthcoming." 
Opa says "The upshot is that I do try to ensure that everyone, no matter 
  what times they come online, gets equal consideration. But because there 
  are times of the day when the game is less populated, I admit, some 
  people are at a disadvantage. I would like to offset that disadvantage - 
  I certainly try to. The new mentoring system, for example, is something I 
  think will help. But I'm not perfect, and it's obvious that people are 
  still falling through the cracks. I am happy to accept suggestions from 
  you guys as to how to make things fairer." 
Opa says "And my final word on this subject is that, to be totally honest, 
  I *love* giving out promotions. It makes people happy, it increases game 
  enjoyment, it encourages other Weavers to keep being active, and, 
  speaking as a promoter, it's durn fun to do. :) Okay, the floor is now 
  open on this topic. Page me to get on the queue if you want to comment or 
  ask a question. Fiona, you're first." 
Fiona says "eeps! Okay, just a sec. :)" 
Mirtia has to add one other thing, "Minecraft Master Zanyr knew that metal 
  was too rare to be used for sequins cheaply, but readily suggested gem 
  chips, or glass. He didn't realize that glass was almost as rare as 
  metal, because that's Smithcraft... (*grins* S 
Jekar hehs. 
Mirtia giggles, "Had it typed in long ago. Sorry! 
Mirtia shuts up and sits quietly... 
Tasmin says "I feel like people also come out and RP /specifically/ for you 
  and Var, Opa. Which is why other people should be able to reccommend. 
  Esp. Apprentices ;)" 
Jekar uhms, "This implies that people ONLY RP for promotions. What 
  about...for fun? Cause if the first is true, Opa wouldn't need to RP ;)" 
Fiona says "This is a rather radical and extremem suggestion, but here 
  goes. I've been spending a large amount of time on a World of Darkness 
  mush where they use xp (experience points) to advance characters. 
  Basically, everyone gets a certain number of them and you 'vote' for 
  other players if you enjoyed RP with them or thought they did a good job. 
  This is extreme, I'll admit, but it's a thought." 
Maura says "nonononononononono :}" 
Jekar agreees! I've gotten a few just for descing, and I've gotten more for 
  RPing. It can go either way. 
Maura would play on a M* if she wanted to play on a M* like that... 
Fiona says "I'm not saying it should be the sole promotion method or 
  anything, but it goes along the lines of everyone in the craft being able 
  to give their opinions about whether a person deserves promoting." 
Mirtia wonders how everyone gets the points... 
Jekar underlines /everyone/. 
Tessa has +watch on and is going out of the room to answer some pages. :| 
Broccal hrms at Fiona's suggestion. That would be a way for others to help 
  Opa and Varina focus on deserving folks 
Tessa moves out to the south, into the inner courtyard. 
Opa's reaction is much like Maura's, I'll admit, not to slam you of course, 
  Fiona. :) But the idea of some sort of 'points' system is abhorrent to 
  me. As Jekar says, we're here RPing because we enjoy RPing, not because 
  we're trying to get promotions (although obviously it's something people 
  do think about). There is no definite set of criteria that I have that 
  people have to pass before I point at them and say "Okay, *now* you're 
  ready." 
Maura says "well, I don't think Opa would turn down comments from people on 
  other's RP. But-- Aww, man, she typed faster again. :}" 
Jekar chuckles. 
Fiona says "I'm just offering this as an alternative to my sending out 
  +mail to Opa and Var saying "so-and-so's RP is spiffy and I think they 
  deserve a promotion, which I've done in the past. Some record keeping 
  system might just be a little simpler." 
Opa says "With points, it brings up all sorts of possibilities of 
  comparison, and people suddenly RPing in front of whole messes of people 
  just for points, and suddenly the whole purpose is lost, y'know? I want 
  some sort of system in place that allows for those Varina and I don't get 
  on a lot with to be recognized, but which doesn't "hang over your head" 
  like a points system would." 
Deresh jumps the queue and points out the comment system that some weyrs 
  use during candidacy? 
Jekar drums his fingers. "What you want is akin to a Search committee type 
  thing in the Weyrs?" 
Broccal says "How much are you willing to trust our opinions of other's 
  abilities?" 
Deresh pokes Jekar, "Outta my head!" 
Jekar says "Do you have a choice? How much are you willing to trust Opa's 
  or Varina?" 
Jorai trusts her own opinions implicitly ;) 
Tasmin says "As far as I can throw 'em ;)" 
Fiona nods to both Derry and Jek, "That's vageuly what I had in mind. A 
  meshing of random +mailing and tallying points, like the search stuff." 
Opa nods at Fiona. Believe me, I *like* those +mails. I think they're 
  informative because a person says what they really think, as they're 
  being inspired by their good impression of the Weaver. 
Broccal says "I don't know how that works. would someone explain it for 
  those of us w/t rider alts?" 
Jekar doesn't know how it works, and he /does/ have rider alts. ;) 
Deresh nods, "The comment system is short, can be checked by each person, 
  as Opa or Varina feel fit." 
Deresh hasn't seen it in action, but knows that for each candiate you can 
  check comments on them, I think. 
Maura says "it varies from weyr to weyr." 
Fiona says "I guess what I'm trying to say is I often don't have the time 
  to sit down and write out a +mail, even when I should. If there was some 
  short simple method of dropping a comment, that'd be great." 
Opa isn't sure, Jekar. I want something to be in place where, first and 
  foremost, Weaver X isn't seen by me as being inactive just because I 
  never see him/her. And secondly, and perhaps a little more difficult 
  because this gets into Broccal's very good point of 'how much do you 
  trust the opinions of others', is an evaluation not only of *whether* a 
  person is active, but of the quality of their RP and whatnot. 
Tasmin says "Like a +hotshit command?" 
Tasmin says "A convention from another sort of mush, it basically creates a 
  quick +mail of reccomendation for one." 
Deresh knows Ista use the comment system, and if Germaine or G'rel are 
  still on, or Merellia, they could tell us more about it. 
Fiona knows Ista uses it too ause they left the object visible at one 
  point. ;) 
Maura says "we don't want to be casually promoting people, right? So, if 
  someone's RP is good enough to promote them on, the it sould be good 
  enough to take a few moments to write out a +mail. We're a group, and as 
  such we have responsibilities ot one another, and part of that 
  responsibility should be helping the CM make logical and considered 
  promotions." 
Opa says "Where the 'whose opinion do you listen to' issue is concerned, 
  this is why I think asking journeyrankers is a good start - anyone who 
  makes it to journeyrank presumably has experience and good RP skills and 
  can recognize them in others. Would it be an idea to gather the 
  journeyrankers up every now and then and say 'okay guys, who's been good 
  and active recently'?" 
Jekar sniffs. "Meaning /I/ wouldn't be considered worthy to scope out these 
  possible promos?" ;) 
Opa muses, having now read down to the most recent poses. :) Hm. That 
  +comment idea sounds very good. 
Broccal says "do you mean, opa, the j'rank and masters would have a 
  mini-meeting before the big meet?" 
Jekar says "Weyr staff (non rider) generally gets a say in Impression, do 
  Craft staff have the same for promos? :)" 
Mirtia says "I think for everyone to be able to have input in promos it 
  would have to be structured in a way in which everyone would be able to 
  use in time...A meeting is so hard to schedule..." 
Opa says "Well, no, it doesn't have to be so formal as a meeting, because 
  sometimes journeyrankers and masters may have stuff to say about each 
  other. :) Maybe a +mail, like 'meeting's coming up, now's a good time to 
  let me know who's been active recently'." 
Opa nods at Mirtia. Yeah. True. 
Broccal nods. "Like you paged me 'tother day before you logged out." 

[disconnect] 

Mirtia says "Why not do both?" 
Opa jots all these ideas down so that I can mull them over later. Alright, 
  let's go on to...Broccal? You had something to say about scoping out 
  posted Weavers for promotions? 
Broccal nods. "Yes. I'd just like to know where you'd get your info about 
  posted weaver's rp? and how you determine what our rp is like. (Also, I 
  apologize if I sound belligerent) 
Opa looks somewhat glum. Well, this is where I admittedly do have a 
  problem. When I have the time, I make the effort to +watch, and I also 
  take into very strong considerations any comments I get from people who 
  live in the places where these Weavers are posted. But one of the 
  discrepancies in handing out promotions is, I admit, with the posted 
  Weavers. I am open to suggestions on how to improve this one, too. 

Weavers> Kelay says, "Wow you are all still here!" 

Mirtia notes that Madelaine too seems to be posted elsewhere. She should be 
  able to have the same possibility for having +comments or mail or 
  something about her, but there's noone I know of there to do it... 

Weavers> Opa looks sheepish. Yeah. 

Opa says "Deresh, you had a comment?" 
Deresh says "S'ok, Opa. My comment was the +comment suggestion. :)" 
Opa grins. Oh, cool. Okay then...Mairin, *you* had a comment? 
Broccal looks glumly back at the Master. "How did Lenore get info on YOU?" 
Opa has no idea. :) Alts? 
Cleona nods to Opa. "Exactly that." 
Broccal knows that Cleona has alts. Does she watch us? 
Maura suspects that the best way to get promoted is to not sweat it and 
  just have fun. :) 
Tasmin says "FBI files?" 
Opa oooh, guessed right. :) Actually, one of the ideas I came up with was 
  to indicate to the leaders of the areas a Weaver is posted to that I'm 
  open to comments about how the Weaver is doing, for promotional purposes. 
Maura was browsing the FBI files just today. :) 
Opa grins at Maura. Well, yes. :) 
Opa says "Okay, Mairin appears to be idle at the moment, so let's come back 
  to her later. Tasmin, you're next." 
Tasmin says "Okay. Two parts of my ideas.. here's #1:" 
Cleona says "I don't deliberately go around _watching_ people, but I see a 
  lot. And I think I'm not alone in that. :)" 
Big Brother Is Watching... 
Opa thwap. *Sister*. Get your genders right, O anonymous spoofer. ;) 
Mairin blushes, "I just think that not only should proms. be awarded on 
  rp/desc but what you do occ to help the hold prosper. ie. I can't spell 
  very well (even with my over used spell checker) several people have been 
  kind enough to preread my desc. like wise, occ I sew alot and can tell 
  you if something is possible to do with certain types of fabrics 
  ect...and so on...(I hope I don't sound spammy.) but even these small 
  things shouldn't be over looked...(and thanks to thoses who proof read 
  me:)) 
Tasmin says "I think the whole sucking-up promotion-oriented player is a 
  totally piece of garbage, in terms of building a craft. Therefoce, I 
  submit the idea of a system that automatically qualifies people to be 
  promoted on a basic time scale. Assuming continued activity, they'd 
  automatically be given the chance (OOCly) to be promoted at the next 
  meeting. Saves Opa and Varina from stressing over who needs what, people 
  who want the bigspiffy titles get 'em without having to be a total twit, 
  and those who just want to RP / desc / chase Fiona can do whatever they 
  like without having to worry about being seen at certain times." 
Spoofer ouchies, and apologizes to Big Omnicient Being Of Your Choice. :} 
Mairin says "You could do it on a ratio factor,..." 
Tasmin says "Not really - promotion to Master would only be by 'manual' 
  choice." 
Tasmin says "And self-selection would keep things sane ;)" 
Maura raises an eyebrow at Tasmin. So the only ones currently holding rank 
  are tiwts? 
Tasmin says "Second (and contradictory):" 
Tasmin says "No, Maura, the only ones itching to be promoted so much they 
  research Opa's online times are ;)" 
Maura says "well, I'm willing to give Opa enough credit to know who is 
  playing up just to her. Automatic promotion cheapens the whole process, 
  and discredits the entire Hall." 
Broccal grins at Tasmin. 
Tasmin says "Second: I'd love to see everyone - especially appentices - 
  able to comment. Even if its just a "I RP'd with this person" - while 
  exact numbers of 'votes' are a dumb way to rate people, it'd make it 
  possible to see who is active at all and who isn't at all." 
Broccal says "Maura, let him finish" 
Jorai bounces on Broccal's knee to stay awake :) 
Tasmin says "That's it. I'll take Maura's question now:" 
Tasmin says "The purpose of promotion is what, Maura? (Yah, I answer 
  questions with other questions)" 
Maura has seen "automatic promotion" tried and utterly destroy the craft in 
  question. 
Mairin says "but you can't have 20 masters running around and 2 apps. new 
  people won't fee comfy coming in and playing there..." 
Opa says "Naw, s'okay, I think Tasmin will be our last person on the queue 
  and I'm going to end up soon, so little bitty comments as we go along are 
  fine now. :)" 
Maura says "to acknologe and reward service to the craft and the MUSH. This 
  can't be done simply sitting in one's room. If we have automatic 
  promotion based on time, not effort, there is no reason for anyone to 
  come out of their room, and then we might as well shut down the whole 
  MUSH." 
Tasmin says "Wrong, Maura. Promotions exist to give people different roles 
  to play. This isn't a 'carrot and stick' world like WoD where bad RP gets 
  you sucked dry." 
Tasmin says "(IMHO)(" 
Jorai says "I thought the reason people came out was that they enjoyed RP" 
Tasmin says "I think that when people want to try a new (IC) role, they 
  should have the chance as long as they've tried their old one for a 
  while. It seems fair to me." 
Opa says "Okay, hold up, try to keep it happy. :)" 
Jekar hehs. Bad RP seems to be prevalent at the one WoD I see. ;) 
Jorai is in Broc's lap, how happy can a woman get ;) 
Broccal grins. I'm pretty happy. For now. 
Deresh hang ons a minute, "There are also some people who like to help 
  others, to be seen, In and Out of Char as people others can turn to, or 
  rely on. Automatic promotion does nothng for their efforts, or for their 
  skills or talents in helping others. 
Maura says "well then, why bother having a rank system? Why not just let 
  people choose the rank they want to play?" 
Fiona pokes at Jekar, "Did you save that comment just till I got back?" 
Kelay says "hey Broc, aren't your legs getting tired?" 
Jekar directs Fiona to look at WHO again. I just got back. 
Tasmin says "To keep people from only creating Journeyfolk and missing the 
  Apprentice experience." 
Opa nods. The issue of 'why do we have ranks and promotions' is just too 
  convoluted and deep right now, and I'd rather not get into it. 
Fiona hmpfs, "Then we bounced together, I guess." 
Broccal considers. "yeah, Kelay. Hey, it's my turn to sit in YOUR lap now, 
  Jorai 
Tasmin says "I personally think that IC rank is just that -- IC -- and 
  shouldn't be taken as a 'reward' for pleasing the masters." 
Jekar says "Oh, that's the simplest. We have ranks and promotions because 
  in the books they did." 
Tasmin says "We're here for fun, right, not to get as many points as we 
  can. At least, I am. People forget hat." 
Opa laughs. Oh, sure, if you want to go with the *easy* answer, Jekar... 
Jekar grins. 
Opa says "Okay. I'm going to cut the discussion off right now because we've 
  heard a lot of ideas, and reactions to them, and I've got a lot to work 
  with now." 
Broccal says "I think that a master should be someone that could 
  conceivably take over teh craft if necessary. what does a weyr look for 
  in a bronze or gold rider?" 
Kelay says "hey, this girl just wants to have fun...RL is serious enough!" 
Mairin shudders at the word "work". 
Opa says "Naturally I'd like to encourage anyone who comes up with more 
  ideas or comments to send them my way, including all you folks currently 
  reading the log of this meeting (wow, existentialism)" 
Jekar says "Someone who's willing to always play hostess? ;)" 
Mirtia laughs. 
Maura says "but /why/? If to be a journeyman means you must have been an 
  apprentice, but not to have /earned/ the rank, then why not just skip the 
  whole apprentice stange and assume it happened? Promotion by it's very 
  nature on a RP MUSH is an earned thing. It looses all meaning if it's 
  just given out on a point basis. What good is being a Master is /anyone/ 
  can be a Master after playing for x-weeks? I would never take a Master 
  seriously in that situation, and thuly the experience would be null and 
  void." 
Deresh Amens Maura. And adds descing and coding and RPing on a Rping MUSH. 
Broccal looks at Maura and says, "Ok." 
Jekar won't touch code. hurrah for descs. 
Opa says "And I'd like to end off by once again saying that I hope the 
  purpose of you guys here is to have fun, and that promotions are 
  something that come along when you do have fun. My job is to make sure 
  that the promotions get handed out where they're due. End of Topic." 
Tasmin says "Promotion by lotterry!!! :)" 
Tasmin says "Musical chairs!" 
Broccal says "Or, do it the Klingon way?" 
Maura grins. You get a harp, I'll grab a flute. :) 
Mirtia says "Draw straws!" 
Opa says "I am assuming no one has any other OOC topics they want to raise. 
  :)" 
Jekar might wind up MasterCrafter. ;) Now. Who's going to desc those 
  chairs? should we RP playing or code it? ;) 
Maura says "I'll grab a Batleth? :}" 
Deresh says "The point is, it should be everyone's option to work in an 
  area that pleases them, and that won't put them at a disadvantage, like 
  feeling that they /have/ to RP, to the detriment of their coding or 
  descing." 
Jekar waves his hand "Oh me Opa! Me! Me!" 
Opa says "If this is about a posting or STU, Jekar, you're dead. :)" 
Fiona hands Opa the Jekar beating stick. :) 
Maura says "um, what's STU? :}" 
Broccal falls off his nicely desced chair to laugh at opa and jekar 
Opa says "Subcraft. :)" 
Tasmin says "First half of my favorite word, Maura." 
Opa says "Actually, I have a *very* quick other OOC topic which I'll just 
  zoom right by ya." 
Jekar DARNS! "okay, no Stu. What about a Posting? ;) 
Jorai hms, STUpid? 
STUdent? 
Tasmin gives Jorai 
5 points. 
Jorai hees 
Maura says "ahh. :)" 
Fiona hands Opa the Jekar beating 'Post'. ;) 
Opa says "I've heard a few wonderings about the fact that Zelez is back in 
  the capacity of Mastertailor after being idledested and coming back to 
  life. Zelez is back, but she knows she's not going to be very active, and 
  we've agreed that because of this, she won't be Mastertailor any more. 
  So...since at the moment we have no PCs to replace her, anyone who would 
  like to come up with an NPC concept for a new Mastertailor, go for it. :) 
  Maybe the tailors would like to get together." 
Jekar eeps. "Can my knot position be changed to 'King'? ;)" 
Jekar hands Opa the beating Sceptre. 
Tasmin says "How about the fashion consultant to the army from Good 
  Morning, Vietnam? ;)" 
Opa raises the squeaky gavel. Please Faranth, let me be able to drop this 
  now. ;) Going... 
Jorai shouts out, "5 Marks!" 
Opa says "Going...." 
Jekar idly wonders. "If there are kilts commissioned, can there be kimonos? 
  (Kimonoes? Kimoni?)" 
Maura rises, one foot in the air, watching the gavel hover, ready to bolt 
  as it falls... 
Broccal says "5.25 marks!" 
Jorai pouts, "You're not sposed to bid against me." 
Opa says "<SQUEEEEEEAAAAAK!> (and "kimono" pluralised in Japanese is 
  "kimono :)"