Group: alt.firefighters Date: Fri, Jul 28, 2000, 4:52pm (EDT+4) From: [email protected] (UpsetLVresident)WHICH HELICOPTER DO YOU SEND? alt.firefighters rec.aviation.rotorcraft alt.emergency.services.dispatcher
WHICH HELICOPTER DO YOU SEND?
Hello all. We have a policy here in Southern Nevada established by the Clark County Fire Department that I think is absurd and I would like some opinions and views from others that work in the field. The policy deals with responding a helicopter to scene. I always thought that when an emergency vehicle was sent to a scene, they would send the closest. If your house was on fire, the closest fire truck was sent. If you needed an ambulance, the closest was sent. For some strange reason, here in Southern Nevada, when you are severly injured and require a rapid transport via helicopter, the Clark County Fire Dept doesn't look at a map to send the closest, they look at the calendar.
Up until two months ago, Southern Nevada has had 4 helicopters from two different companies, Flight-for-Life and Airlife (Mercy Air out of Southern California). Flight-for-Life has 3 of the helicopters spread out of Southern Nevada (one in Las Vegas, one in Pahrump and one in Primm - California/Nevada border). Airlife had one, based near Sloan. At the end of May, Airlife put in a second helicopter part time, so we now have 4 1/2 helicopters in the area. Great! The more, the better.
When Airlife entered into Southern Nevada, they came and hired all Clark County Fire Dept paramedics (including two of the three CCFD EMS Supervisors), used (and still are) Clark County nurses, and painted the normally white and blue helicopter yellow and blue (the same color as the Clark County Fire Dept rescues and engines) and put "Clark County" on their doors. It appears they are part of Clark County.
Southern Nevadans ran into problems in March of 1999. Airlife was surrounded on three sides by Flight-for-Life's helicopters. Sending the closest helicopter resulted in Airlife not getting a lot of flights. By chance, Clark County Fire Dept implemented a policy that they would no longer call the closest helicopter, they would rotate companies. One month they would call Airlife. The next month, they would call Flight-for-Life. One of the Deputy Fire Chiefs was quoted as saying "this will level the playing field."
So the company with one helicopter (and Clark County nurses and paramedics) gets a month of calls, as does the company with three spread out around Southern Nevada. On a routine basis, one helicopter ends up flying right by another helicopter responding to calls or lands at a scene that is right next to another helicopter. This means the patient does not get to the hospital as quick as they could or should. I don't know but maybe Southern Nevada is blessed and we don't have to worry about things like "The Golden Hour", brain damage starting in as little as 6 minutes or bleeding out internally.
A local reporter recently did a story about this on the news and interviewed the CCFD Fire Chief. When asked about this policy, the Chief stated Clark County looked to "like" fire depts around the nation and most of them rotated helicopters so that's what they did. However when the reported asked other depts, he was told that rotation only applied when helicopters were sent from the same location. If they were at different locations, the closest was sent. When this was pointed, nothing changed here. Can I get some opinions and maybe even ideas from others?
-----------------------------------------------
Group: �� rec.aviation.rotorcraft Subject: �� Re: WHICH HELICOPTER DO YOU SEND? Date: �� Fri, Jul 28, 2000, 6:12pm (EDT-3) Organization: �� Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: �� [email protected]
How about the Guardian Bell 407 (Operated by Air Methods) that is based at the Laughlin/Bullhead Airport directly across the river from the casinos in Laughlin, NV? They are definetly closer to any accidents in the Laughlin area or on the south part of Lake Mohave. They don't even get consideration in the Clark Co. rotation! Why because they are a stones throw across the river in AZ???
-----------------------------------------------
From: �� [email protected] (UpsetLVresident) Group: �� alt.firefighters Subject: �� Re: WHICH HELICOPTER DO YOU SEND? X-Admin: �� [email protected] Date: �� Sat, Jul 29, 2000, 7:25pm (EDT+4) Organization: �� AOL http://www.aol.com
Though you offered a significant amount of detail in your cross-posted message, there is no doubt still a great deal that we do not know. In is in fact, not likely that any of us in these widely read newsgroups will be able to spend the hours of investigation necessary to properly debate this single local issue.
I'm not asking for an investigation or a debate. I'm asking for other views and opinions. Does this happen in other areas or do they send the closest? Some basic points?
We don't have a clear definition of the actual response time differential (rather than perceived distance) that seems to be the crux of your concern. Helicopters can cover immense amounts of distance in a relatively short period. All things considered, there are often many other factors in a major EMS incident that can eat up "the golden hour", rather than the departure point of the Air Ambulance.
The closest two are about 10 minutes between each other, the farthest two are about 35 minutes between each other. My concern is when there an incident where time is of the essence (hence sending a helicopter), why is ok to waste an extra 10 minutes or more? If time didn't matter, just transport by ground. Just last month there was a five person fatal accident where 3 helicopters ended up responding. Because of the rotation, it took 18 minutes for the first to arrive, 11 minutes for the second and 20 for the third. 4 people died on scene and another died later in srugery. If the closest would have been sent, she could have arrived at the Trauma Center 7 minutes sooner. She could have been in surgery 7 minutes sooner. Could she have lived getting there 7 minutes sooner? We'll never know now.
While the issue at first blush seems to be purely political, there are probably some legal and logistical issues that have led to the rotational concept being used. Again, we don't have all the facts. Ideally, there would
You said it right in your first 11 words, in my opinion.
be one massive fleet of fully staffed and properly maintained EMS helos in a location that was "close to everywhere". This sadly cannot be. Given the variances of staffing, maintenance, training and (yes) multiple calls at the same time, there are some situations that call for flexibility and at times, mutual aid.
I agree and understand the different possibilties. My thought is you simply send the closest. If the closest is unavailable for maintenance or being on another flight, you then send the next closest, and so on. You don't have one fly right by another 10 minutes later, or have one land a feet away from another simply because of the calendar. ...and maybe even ideas from others?
In a simple sense, it is a local issue with only local answers. While your opinion and emotional involvement is not to be discounted, it would be best for you to independently gather scientific data to determine if, how and when current policy is *actually* having a deleterious effect on the patient's morbidity or mortality. That's my $ 0.02, YMMV.
Thank you! That's exactly what I'm asking for.
-----------------------------------------------